#9 Johnny Siu (Co-Founder of Vinny) on PropTech, Property AI and building Vinny

PropTech's current state is that despite decades of software development, property management systems have remained largely stuck in the past. We interviewed Johnny Siu, a PropTech expert who is changing the real estate industry right now with his venture, Vinny.

Vinny is an AI property manager that automates the tenant journey end-to-end. It handles the repetitive administrative work, such as fielding initial inquiries, sending WhatsApp messages to prospects, booking viewings, and triaging maintenance tickets. This frees up leasing agents to focus on the human side of the job: actually conducting viewings, personalizing the customer experience, and closing deals. Furthermore, the software directly increases a property's equity value by lowering operational expenses and boosting top-line rental revenue.

Tune in to this episode of Cutting Edge AI to learn how industry-specific AI is revolutionizing the world's largest asset class.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Johnny Siu: We even look at the our customers KPIs and and what they care about. So that's net operating income, that's how much rent they're receiving, that is uh what their occupancy is, what how many void days, and how do we accelerate those? And I think that's one of the keys and in why we've been able to be so successful.

[00:00:21] Robin Harbort: This is Cutting Edge AI brought to you by Angel Invest with your hosts Jens Lapinski and Robin Harbort. Our guest today is Johnny. He is a property tech expert who is changing the real estate industry right now. Despite decades of software development, property management systems have remained largely stuck in the past and only doing a fraction of the work which can actually done by software and now AI. That's where Johnny's venture Ask Vinny comes in. It's an AI property manager. It calls your potential renters, does all the admin and even increases your property value. This is the cutting edge AI podcast by Angela Invest. Let's go. Hey Johnny, welcome to Cutting Edge AI.

[00:01:19] Johnny Siu: Hey Robin, thanks for having me here. It's a pleasure.

[00:01:21] Robin Harbort: Thanks for for being here. Also, hello to Jens.

[00:01:21] Jens Lapinski: Hello.

[00:01:23] Robin Harbort: So Johnny, you have quite spent some time in proper tech also with AI. Can you give a little bit of background about yourself, what you've done in the past?

[00:01:38] Johnny Siu: Yeah, so I've been in prop tech for most of my working career. So, so my last two roles um building across the the spectrum of real estate from letting agents and small property managers all the way to for big institutional owners and operators across Europe and at each stage building across different parts of the tenant journey. So at Goodlord I was building the the pre-tenency journey. So everything and anything you need to get a tenant moved into a property. So that's signing the contracts, referencing all of the documents you need to put together to to get that tenant ready to move in. So from inquiry, all the way to to move in and then um I was also at Lavanda, building the core property management system. This is essentially the CRM that that all um residential portfolios and even commercial portfolios run on. Um and it's their core for core operating system. And so yeah, I'm sure we're going to go into it, but it's whilst there had uh these ideas for for Vinny, which ultimately led to to where we are.

[00:02:42] Robin Harbort: Is there something in particular which excites you about this space? Because you you spent some some years in it. So, so what is interesting in in PropTech for you?

[00:02:50] Johnny Siu: Yeah. So, the thing that like excites me most about PropTech, it's been, you know, it's not a new industry like the even the first generations of so of software when those were being built uh people were like oh how can we apply this to real estate uh and how can we um streamline our workflows how can we record our rents how can we um manage our properties better um but despite that over the last 10, 20, 30 years not much has changed um with the proliferation of all of this PropTech property managers and owners and operators are still struggling with their with their day-to-day. And so that's what what's really exciting and especially in this new era of AI, I think there's a massive opportunity here for us to to work on.

[00:03:40] Robin Harbort: Like in in preparation for this podcast, I I researched one number and this is the market cap of all properties worldwide. And I was absolutely blown away that it's, first of all, it's the largest asset in the world and by six times the second largest assets like 670 trillion in property. So, uh for me that was reason enough to be excited about the space.

[00:04:08] Johnny Siu: What was the second largest asset class?

[00:04:11] Robin Harbort: Uh it's oil and then followed by like the metals, and the currencies but uh real estate sits on top by a really really large gap.

[00:04:24] Johnny Siu: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's what's also exciting as well in terms of the TAM and the opportunity for us to grow in

[00:04:30] Robin Harbort: Yeah, to put it into perspective, that's 100 Nvidas. So, you've already spoken about your past experiences, but still being in those interesting companies, you decided to to go for your own business, AskVnny. So, what exactly did you see or at what time did it happen that you wanted to start your own company?

[00:04:52] Johnny Siu: That's a great question. I was yeah building all of this prop tech, building property management systems and had this insight, where there's all of these PMSs and softwares being built, but I thought they were focused on the wrong thing. You know, they're one of the first property management system and still the biggest Yardi, MRI. They were started in 1984. Um, and MRI I think even before that. Um, and I think the the approach they they took was very much around we need to collect rent from all of these hundreds and thousands of properties that we manage. Let's have a system of record and then adding the accounting layer and the financial layer in terms of collecting that rent and that's what they've they've done and they've been very successful at and that's where they've stayed as well. I mean over time they've started adding additional modules you know like leasing products, maintenance products, compliance workflows. But any time that they've kind of tried to build out these other other kind of adjacent features it's not their core product. It's not their core focus. So I thought for property like who who are we really building for here? We're building for the tenant and we're building for the property manager or the leasing agent at the end of the day who has to use this PMS. So taking that accounting and financial approach, you end up with these really old and legacy systems that do that job really well. It's a solved problem but no one was really focusing on that tenant experience or that property management experience and I thought there was a massive opportunity to start building an operating system an AI operating system that starts there which is a complete completely different starting point from from where a lot of other PropTech providers and a lot of other uh all of the legacy systems started.

[00:06:39] Jens Lapinski: How do you think about this market? I mean there is a very heavy service component with with all of that. Yeah, I think this the software market is about 25 billion the the size of that the the service market is another 75 billion on top or I think that's the uh so it's 100 billion total market size approximately from from memory. So the the question would be: Do you think that when you like what's what's your entry point? Do you say hey we actually automate some of those services, we take the cost out or do you go after the the the software piece initially? Can you explain to the audience how you think about that.

[00:07:15] Johnny Siu: in the world of AI and what we've we're building we it it's kind of we kind of like stumbled upon it um as well as it being what we've planned. So we've always wanted to automate the workflow end to end. So I'll give you a tangible example. Leasing. Inquiry comes in from one of your ILS's. So your your major portals in the UK it's Right Move, on the market it's Zuppler. In Germany it's uh it's Scout 24. In Spain and today a leasing agent has to pick up the phone, qualify them, ask them their income, their budget, what properties are they looking for, book them in for a viewing. It's a very manual process. It's very repetitive. They're always asking the same questions. So we've built that workflow and that journey in in order to automatically pick up those phone calls to WhatsApp prospects, when they make an inquiry, and to actually book them in directly for that viewing. And the result of that is where we are starting now to not just, when we're selling this product, we're not just looking at their software line uh which is typically 1% of of their revenue that they they allocate and budget for software, but looking at their FTE costs as well. When you map out that workflow in terms of what needs people today, what needs software, and then now with Vinny or AI, um we're definitely um doing the best of both worlds. And we've had customers and teams where because we're redesigning how their organization works, how many people they need to do certain tasks, we are certainly eating not in just not not into just that software line, but the services line as well.

[00:08:52] Jens Lapinski: I mean, you've decided and there are other people who do this differently, but you've decided that you're going to be yeah an a provider of let's just call it well of AI intelligence or of a software system. Yeah. And you've decided not to go into, not I mean, other companies are buying you know buying up these service providers and then they deploy the the software and they do this very differently from from how you are doing it. Can you can you explain your rationale how you why you've done it like that

[00:09:20] Johnny Siu: there you're talking about you know the the PE VC rollup plays versus a pure software play um and the the approach we've taken.

[00:09:29] Jens Lapinski: Correct.

[00:09:30] Johnny Siu: For us I think it's it's all about focus especially for for the first couple of years with the the rollup plays. You're building one business with three distinct competencies you need there. You need to be really great at product. You really need to be really good at acquisitions and then you need to be really good at the operations as well. And that's really difficult and they can keep acquiring and and they see as a a c cost uh in terms of buying property managers. But in terms of the customers we're working with with institutional owners and operators, they've spent decades kind of training that that discipline in how do you acquire business, how do you roll them up, how do you manage and operate that those properties. Um, and I think long term they'll still be the kind of um biggest um operators and and owners uh in in real estate. Um, you know, the your CPRE, your Savills, your your NightFranks of the world um have been around for a long time and this is what they've built their whole business on. So I think for for us by just focusing on that software piece, we're then working with some of the these big players um and being able to just stay on the product and be able to execute there really effectively and still drive those results and at the same time have those uh software gross margins which is yeah it's a completely different business model to to some of the the P, you know uh rollups.

[00:10:49] Robin Harbort: So can you describe for for us what happens at a property manager when they decide to to use Ask Vinnie because like on the website you're basically describing you can scale without any other systems, you don't need uh additional amount of people. So what what changes in their work and how they can operate?

[00:11:08] Johnny Siu: What we do on on day one is go into these businesses and really understand deeply the tech and the AI side like we've got a load of different products and something like really early on from from my previous roles I've realized that every operator every owner operates slightly differently and traditional PropTech has not served the market well where they've been very rigid in terms of what they can provide. Okay, this is what our how our leasing product works. This is how our CRM works. This is what our PMS does. If you don't fit firmly into that category, people really struggle and there was always workarounds and middleware for people to get the most out of those products. So, we we took a different approach. We go into these businesses, understand their workflows, we understand their people and how they operate, what types of assets they manage, and then work backwards from that. How do we apply the products we have in terms of their leasing, in terms of their property management, in terms of their maintenance and having worked out those workflows, we can then build out those those automations and yeah see where where the highest impact is. Typically we come in on the leasing side. What we've seen is when you come in, and you can help them get to 100% occupancy, something we did with one of our customers in in eight weeks help them reduce void periods and increase their uh sales conversion funnels. So getting tenants moved into properties quicker and ultimately increase their topline revenue. You then get get noticed. You get noticed by the C-suite you get the business gets really excited about what else you can do. So then we go into the other areas of the business where you know on in terms of the opex savings might take a bit longer six to 18 months to realize some of the benefits there. So it's a whole going change management piece and then um applying AI to to driving efficiencies across every aspect of their business.

[00:12:58] Jens Lapinski: I mean the way in which you're describing it is is It sounds very generalistic in a sense. Yeah. It's a certain type of person who operates certain types of business and you go in and then you effectively automate their workflows one by one. Yeah.

[00:13:13] Johnny Siu: Mhm.

[00:00:00] Jens Lapinski: I know that ASP is very focused on the property management space right now. Have you ever thought about other industries that are kind of similar with very similar types of activities where you think: you know what? Maybe if I raise a lot of money at some point probably not with the next round, but maybe with the round after that or whatever. I just plop down five different teams and say, "Okay, you go after all these different industries now." Have you ever thought that? Have you ever thought about that as a as a as an option for you in the future?

[00:13:45] Johnny Siu: I mean, I'd be lying if I I haven't said me and my co-founder always uh think about it and discuss it. And you know, one of our competitors in in America, they've not pivoted, but they're now starting in a completely different industry in healthcare. But what I think is having that focus in real estate, there's still so much more we can do. So, at the moment, our core focus is in residential, there's commercial properties, there's sales of properties. Um, and it even within residential, there's multiple asset classes. So, currently we're doing build to rent and multifamily and co-living. We're just moving into the single family space. Um, but then there's student properties, there's uh later living. And so, I think by being um staying really focused within this vertical um we can get deeper. That domain knowledge uh in terms of the thought process we put in the product. That's where it really shines and that's how we're winning customers so quickly, is by really understanding them what their needs are and being able to translate that into the product and deliver real impact. I think we we would lose focus if we start looking at healthcare tomorrow, insurance the next day and and other industries, and by this focus we are able to charge a premium for that service. And I think that's where a lot of other vertical AI software should be going to if not like really um doubling down on.

[00:15:07] Robin Harbort: if I'm now a property manager what are the task I used to do in the past which didn't really add value or was really inefficient which can now be done by an AI? Like we have talked to other people other founders and you know like in in white collar jobs doing meeting notes, copying data from system A to B, even doing interviews, all of this can be done with AI at a better quality and lower cost. So, so what specific task maybe you can give like two or three examples are now handled by the AI.

[00:15:38] Johnny Siu: Yeah. So, our our flagship product is our lease... lead to lease product. Like I mentioned, inquiries come in um Vinnie will be there to pick up the phone to send WhatsApps, SMS, emails um to your prospects to qualify them and book them in for viewing. Ultimately, you get people booked in for viewing. They would then move in to an application and then look to move into the property. So, um this is a a really uh kind of funny case study or or comment from one of our customers. He says, "When you implement Vinny, you need to uh buy new shoes because you're going to be running around. 

Before they would spend half of their time taking phone calls, booking in people viewings, updating the CRM, updating their their PMS's, and the other half of the time they'd be doing viewings. Now, with Vinnie, they're just they're out there. doing viewings, closing deals, spending time with actual customers. And that's where there's still the the value for people and for real estate businesses to to own that personalization and and how they will still kind of differentiate themselves, but the admin is handled like all the way from inquiry to viewing books, the paperwork in terms of the application referencing, that's all handled and and so yeah, that's how the tasks are are broken up.

[00:16:56] Robin Harbort: I think this is an awesome example for for showcasing that if implement AI, you can actually focus on the work which is fun for you. Maybe asking in all of those steps where AI is involved like you're doing this now for for roughly two years with Ask Vinny and in those 24 months AI had insane improvements. How did those improvements change the way Vinnie works?

[00:17:24] Johnny Siu: Yeah, we we were relatively early uh on our on our thesis and and starting the company and it's been it's been crazy. So, every time a new model gets released and from all of the different providers, we test that out and we experiment with it for for the task in hand. We've built a really flexible architecture to allow us to switch models easily, both in terms of quality on the task at hand, but also for redundancy and then for cost as well. And So, for example, in leasing, you know, when you're asking the same five questions, five, six questions every time, we can use a relatively, you know, one of the older models now and it could be quite straightforward. Whereas for a maintenance task, where we've got a tenant sending in a picture of a tap or of their specific appliance, we're using other state-of-the-art models to process that image to do the triaging and to help tenants with their issues to to resolve them. So, yeah, as the models improve, our product sits on top of that um, as a harness and has also got a lot better as well.

[00:18:25] Jens Lapinski: So, I'm just coming back to the I've just been thinking about this while you talking about your topic because... when you when you say or they go out and they they basically do the viewings. Yeah. This is very very similar if you think about it to say an outside salesperson, and whether they sell screws, or or whether they you know for vert in Germany or whatever or or they are whatever they do or they sell an insurance product or whatever these are very very similar tasks in in some way. You know I'm curious to get your view on this because... There are obviously vertically focused solutions that are industry specific and then there ones that are much more task uh focused and I was just wondering when you because you need to train the AI. The AI needs to be able to do certain things, and you need to also need to contextualize the AI in in an industry. If I get this right you're basically saying that you think that vertically focused AI systems will win because they're just much better attuned towards a specific industry than the ones that horizontally cut across a function. Is that correct?

[00:19:34] Johnny Siu: Yeah, I think there's a few components to that. The like in order for the the context layer for for the AI, there's the integrations with their existing tech stack.

[00:19:45] Jens Lapinski: Yeah.

[00:19:45] Johnny Siu: Um which then allows that job to be complete, you know, like an intercom AI or or or or Zendesk or um some of the Yeah. these horizontal ones. They're not going to go super deep on the task. You can build chat bots where it solves the task 20, 30% It can deflect some some customer complaints and issues based on the training it has. But where we see the opportunity is actually completing that task end to end. And so it's going to the mth degree where it's booking them the viewing where it's creating the work order on their system uh on their property management system and actually raising it with their local plumber. It's raising issues with their on-site maintenance team that we've mapped out those whole workflows for. And I just well hopefully not I just hope someone like, you know, Intercom or or Fin AI is never going to get as deep into some of those workflows uh as we'll be able to.

[00:20:38] Jens Lapinski: Yeah, I have to say I've never really thought about it, but um when I look at our portfolio in Fund 3 and we've invested in over 100 companies with that fund and you you you're also you're one of the 100 companies actually. I think the vast majority of them are actually vertical. I don't think we've ever analyzed that, right? But it's there's a lot of vertical AI companies that are industry specific or very task specific. There very few that cut horizontally across. Yeah. Or if they do then this is a very um this is a task that is very extraordinarily similar across a lot of different industries. Right.

[00:21:11] Johnny Siu: Yeah.

[00:21:11] Jens Lapinski: Where the the actual depth is um is actually limited. Interesting. So do you think that in terms of I mean I know that the the UK uh property market is very large, but do you think for you, you're going to stay focused on one country and absolutely nail that before you geographically expand? Or are there other other markets like do you want to go to the US or some other singular more uh I don't know what the differences are between cities there but basically how do you think about that? Like what's your what's can you give us a glimpse of the more long-term view that you have on on that?

[00:21:51] Johnny Siu: We're going international on day one uh we're launching in three uh additional countries at the moment as as we speak. And the reason we can do that and what's different like why you know to historically SaaS has not been able to launch in these different countries the starting point for Vinny is where what do you hire people to do today on your property management team in terms of leasing in terms of property management and we translate and codify those workflows and we build the core kind of infrastructure to to facilitate that so whether you're leasing in Germany, or Spain, or Australia, we integrate with the systems your your core PMS that has already solved the the problem of the the accounting piece, the rent collection piece, the legislation piece. What we're looking at is what do your your leasing team ask today when they're looking to move someone in? What is the first question your property management team asks when uh someone calls in with a a leaky tap or they they've got a noise complaint? And so that's why we're able to kind of look at these other markets and and obviously um that's one was one of the reasons that that we took your investment Jens with your your strong presence and network in in Germany being one of the the biggest rental markets in the world. What we want to do is very much focus on Europe. I think there's there's a lot of opportunity here. We want to build in Europe. We want to and build for Europe. Um and so yeah, our focus is just Europe over the next couple of years.

[00:23:21] Jens Lapinski: So as a property manager or as a who provides the service, I effectively have two options, right? No, I have three options. I can retire. I can buy, you know, seriously. I can either retire, I can stop doing this. I can, and there are quite a few people thinking about that because they've reached a certain age. I can buy a software like an AI solution from Vinny or somebody else. Maybe, maybe not. Or I can sell to one of these rollups because if I don't do one of those three things, I'm going to lose.

[00:23:57] Johnny Siu: Yep.

[00:23:59] Jens Lapinski: How long do you think this is going to take before the whole market adopts a I or is being adopted by AI because that's the other way of looking at that.

[00:24:05] Johnny Siu: I think we've got precedent for this in in America. We've got three three main competitors there and they're getting like to near 100% market penetration. Like anecdotally, I'd say the market there is probably five five to seven years ahead of us in terms of when these companies started. And so I see that happening across the rest of Europe as well. UK is is a really dynamic PropTech market, really dynic IC residential uh real estate market as well with Spain following suit and then Germany uh slightly behind uh in terms of of adoption. But yeah, you're totally right in terms of of like those three approaches. I think for the rollups on SMEs scale, they'll be able to acquire because then yes, you've got the the sole owner retiring and going I'm going to sell. Yes. Our target is the institutional owners and and operators where they manage 5, 10, 15... 100,000 properties. and those are are never going to go away. Um, and they will they'll sell between themselves. They'll trade. You know, we're we're working with some really big customers in this space and they'll there'll always be kind of these two markets. There's the smallest side of the the property management market where they own between 100 and 500 properties. The business owners there thinking, do I get the tech or do I sell? And then you've got these big guys where you've got institutional capital flooding in from from Europe, flooding in from America buying up real estate across the UK and much of the the western world as well.

[00:25:34] Jens Lapinski: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. How do you think I mean in the US probably the the split there between the guys who buy, who buy a system and integrate it themselves versus the ones who uh who basically become part of a rollup or something like that because those are probably the two choices that you've got when you so... you either you either either the entire you either infuse the service with AI or you basically have an AI system that you that you then bolster by adding more and more services on top. 

How do you think the market is going to split? Is it in Europe going to be like 50/50 or something like that? Because a lot of the large rental I mean the market in Germany I have to actually switch my brain on now. I think it's it's more or less 50/50 and it's but it's geographically different some different cities are are split differently. Yeah.

[00:26:22] Johnny Siu: Yeah.

[00:26:22] Jens Lapinski: But um I think it's more or less 50/50 between these really small ones and then the the some of the large ones. Is that more or less correct?

[00:26:30] Johnny Siu: Yeah. Yeah. In terms of the number of units.

[00:26:31] Jens Lapinski: Yes.

[00:26:31] Johnny Siu: Yeah.

[00:26:33] Jens Lapinski: Interesting. So what that then means in terms of unit coverage about half of the German market say I don't know how it is in Spain but what you're saying is that effectively half of the market um is you know will go towards the um AI system providers and half of the market will will go to the rollups or something like that.

[00:26:54] Johnny Siu: Yeah. But I think even with the the I mean the roll-ups have had really good branding and marketing the the last last couple of years.

[00:27:01] Jens Lapinski: Yeah,

[00:27:01] Johnny Siu: I think they still play a relatively small part of the market and then they'll get to a size where that will converge with are they a big owner operator or are they uh still a a rollup play um and so yeah I think it it gets really exciting and interesting and obviously all of these real estate companies and and C-suite that I'm speaking to are thinking like how do I adapt or how do I survive if I don't I'm going to die and then So they're they're getting attacked from from all angles from yeah these rollout plays they um and they're looking to build their own in AI enabled um operating platforms as well. Yeah, it's a really exciting time.

[00:27:43] Robin Harbort: Cool. You mentioned um number of units. Is this like the key metric for you or the others you're looking at daily?

[00:27:54] Johnny Siu: In terms of like uh an easy comparison across other PropTechs, number of units is is the standard measure. Uh in prop tech is typically what people charge by. We're looking at things like usage and how much of how many times does Vinny need to escalate to a person because that you can then calculate the value that that Vinny is delivering. How many tasks can it complete end to end without escalating? Yeah, that's what the the unit number is what people people look at across the the industry, but we focus on more operational metrics and how we're delivering value. 

We even look at our our customers KPIs and and what they care about. So that's net operating income, that's how much rent they're receiving, that is uh what their occupancy is, what how many void days and how do we accelerate those? And I think that's one of the keys and in why we've been able to be so successful.

[00:28:49] Robin Harbort: So the podcast is called Cutting Edge AI. So now asking you how would you summarize what is cutting edge about Ask Vinny?

[00:28:59] Johnny Siu: Great question. Everything we do is uh is at an edge. I think the way we've we've built the product closely with our customers and then the speed at which we've been able to iterate based on customer feedback and then deliver like real business impact for our customers has been cutting edge.

 Ultimately, our customers buy based on the ROI they see in the product. And being able to show them uplift in rents, uplift in occupancy, reduction in void days, reduction in times that your for tenants need to wait for a maintenance ticket need to to be resolved is what's cutting edge about our product and the way we've approached the the business.

[00:29:38] Robin Harbort: Do you already see a closed feedback loop here from observing what your customers are doing, how Vinnie can help them and then improving the AI software based on that.

[00:30:00] Johnny Siu: Yeah, 100%. Every conversation, every inquiry, every maintenance ticket helps us build that that data flywheel and training data to improve uh improve the product and that compounds over time as well and so yeah our product is in a completely different place from customers I might have demoed to two or three months ago to where it is today and so yeah there's definitely that that closed feedback loop.

[00:30:20] Robin Harbort: this is a a really good point connecting to our previous topic on being industry specific because I think those learning stages compound over time and then being so focused how you are operating is can can really make a difference.

[00:30:36] Jens Lapinski: I have a question around the value of the property. So it just occurs to me that when a property is being serviced really well, presumably the value of the property is higher than when it's not serviced so well. Yeah.

[00:30:50] Johnny Siu: Yeah.

[00:30:52]  Jens Lapinski: Is this something that you that you track or that you're looking at?

[00:30:56] Johnny Siu: Yeah. So the the value of the property is a function of the total rental income minus the operating expenses, which then calculates their their gross to net or gross margin. And if we can lower their opex and increase their topline rental revenue, that then contributes to um the the value of the property, which get gets multiplied by the cap rate, which is a multiple on it's like a multiple on EBIT. In the ROI calculations, that's definitely, um and and the modeling we do for our customers, that's something we definitely look at, and track.

[00:31:31] Jens Lapinski: Super interesting. What that means is that all of the PE guys or anybody who's like a large owner of anything needs to fully adopt this ASAP because if they don't, that's a lot of money that's being left on the table. Yeah.

[00:31:43] Johnny Siu: Yeah. 100%. Something else I wanted to bring up that uh we we haven't quite touched on yet is when we're automating these workflows because Vinny is at the forefront of speaking with all of your tenants, all of your prospects, and we're recording those Vinny's having that conversation. We get much richer demographic data and just data in general about that tenant. We know when they're likely to churn because of what they've said. We know how many maintenance tickets they've raised. We know what they're saying. And we provide all of that data to asset managers and to these property owners so they can then make informed decisions about their properties. So they can see how many inquiries am I getting this week? What are people saying their incomes and budgets are? Um and is my rent level set at the right price. Should I increase it by £50? I'm getting loads of demand here. Everyone's incomes and budgets are much higher than what I've priced this property at. So, there's a whole data and intelligence layer off the back of it that we didn't even consider. That's just been kind of a byproduct of of what we've been building to date. And actually, that's one of the most exciting spaces that that we're building in. And our customers keep asking us for more data. Um because you can imagine before the teams weren't recording these telephone calls, or these WhatsApp messages to prospects. These were happening in all these separate and disparate systems. Um by bringing them all in one place, you have that um intelligence that they've they've always asked for and never had. And that alone has been tremendously valuable for for our customers.

[00:33:17] Jens Lapinski: Very cool.

[00:33:20] Robin Harbort: Well, Johnny, thanks for joining. I I learned a lot. Really interesting.

[00:33:20] Johnny Siu: Thanks for having me and yeah, pleasure to catch up with you as always and Robin as well.

[00:33:31] Robin Harbort: Thank you. Thanks for being here. If you enjoyed this episode, support us by leaving a follow and share the Cutting Edge AI podcast. See you next time.